Steve Nicolaides:
It's a real problem, I'll tell you because--nobody knows what is right. The traditional or mainstream motion picture business is pretty much run by corporate people now. And, corporate people look at one thing and one thing only which is return on investment.

So if you go in with Jon Claude Van Damme in Pinocchio, they look at Jon Claude Van Damme's movies and they say, "People go to see his movies, we'll make it." But if you go in with Passion Fish or Powwow Highway or probably just about any movie that's in the film festival here in Taos, they all go, "I love this material, this so great, these are the kind of movies that we want to be involved with, but it's too soft, you know, you gotta come back with stars." I mean, Boys On The Side would not have gotten made without Whoopie. It's the simple truth of the matter.

You have to find some way to get power into your hand and that unfortunately is usually about talent be it actors or actresses or directors. It's not unfortunate because, hopefully you come with a great piece of material and you get great film makers to realize it. But, they don't care about stories, they don't really care about messages. They don't care about participating in the culture. They're there to make money, it's as simple as that.

Jonathan Wacks:
Well, the point the gentleman made in the front here, which sort of sparked in me the realization that I remember a few years ago when cable television was created and this was supposed to be an opportunity for anybody and everybody through narrow casting to get their point of view to a mass audience. And of course, it rapidly became in the hands of fewer and fewer companies and now probably in the hands of a half a dozen companies, all the cable channels are controlled by them.

But we have a situation in the computer industry which is the wild west; and the Internet is, as we speak, still open to anybody. You know, for fifty dollars a month you can get a site on the Internet and you can put your program which has access to 30 million people world wide. And in a way, even though I'm a filmmaker and I don't make this kind of programming, I think it is important to realize there are all kinds of opportunities and how long it lasts is really a function of how active we're going to be in making this a people's medium. Because it takes very little to be able to put your programming, put your text, put your graphic design, put your quick time movies on the Internet and get them seen. And nobody is controlling it; it's wide open and all you need is a computer, a modem and a telephone line.

Bob Kubey:
But Jonathan, seriously, what do you say, I mean 50 dollars a month is way beyond a lot of people's, the money they'll ever see and not to mention the hardware they've got to have. And that's sending stuff out, they can't even get the stuff in.
Jonathan Wacks:
Well, I'm not saying that every individual in the society is going to have access to that kind of distribution, but I'm saying given a situation like the gentleman was referring to where he's gone out and made a film which obviously cost him money, to create the marketing campaign for such a situation to be able to get into the theaters, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. Whereas we have an opportunity here for people whether it's a small organization, be it a political organization, an environmental organization or whatever, to be able to get up on the 'net and send their message and get on bulletin boards and create programming which is exciting, attractive, interesting and powerful.
Deirdre Downs:
I absolutely, I am so glad you brought that up. And I want you to know for the people here in Taos, you have free time on the Internet through La Plaza. If you call La Plaza Telecommunity in Taos, New Mexico they may be able to--or email them I guess. They may be able to hook you up with a similar telecommunity in your home town. It is absolutely the last place where we have true freedom and we do need to fight to maintain a free system on the Internet.
Audience Member:
That's the point I wanted to bring up with this whole conversation. The thing I haven't heard in this discussion today is access. The problem with the distribution systems the way they exist today, and in fact I did call the Storyteller and say, "Why aren't more independent films there?" The answer to that was junk food. Because people that go see Goofy buy more popcorn. That's literally what they told me, I couldn't believe it.

So, I say until you break up the distribution system as it is, and give it personal empowerment which is what the Internet does, thank you Jonathan. That's where the future lies, and in fact that's what our panel later this afternoon is about, global access. Because once you breakdown those--it's really still the studio system.

Bob Kubey:
Let me just do something procedural. I know we were supposed to stop some minutes ago. Is there a problem for anyone running this show if we keep going to a while because there seems to a lot of interest--
Jonathan Wacks:
I gotta leave,I have to leave.
Steve Nicolaides:
And I do too...
Bob Kubey:
Well, we don't need these film makers, they told us they're not important...we the people have the power. Leslie wants to say something. You guys can disappear. Thank you to them...
Leslie Savan:
I just wanted to tie this up a little bit with the Internet. The Internet, yeah, there's a lot of ways to get things out on the Internet now. But, I hope if there is one thing that comes through this panel at all, it that wherever there is any kind of media at all, there will be some commercial interest trying to exploit it. As many people know, there is some commercialism that's trying to get on the Internet and it's going to be there.

Ad Age--Advertising Age--which is the trade publication for advertisers, has for three years been running a three or four page section every week on how advertisers and ad agencies can get in on the Internet, because they know that's where the market is going. And so, that's another area to watch. The Internet should not and cannot be romanticized as the last frontier. It's going to be as commercial as cable television has become and as PBS is becoming.

And I just want to say one other thing about that. Somebody over here asked, how do you get the word out. How do you spread the idea of media literacy and everything and we've just been talking about educators and producers on two extremes. There's at least another area which represent--I like to think I represent, journalism and part of the media also. But the journalistic part of it. And I know there's probably very few journalists here, but journalists and the press and on television should be doing so much more to help deconstruct their own media and to point out things like what's going on at PBS and why were getting pap from it and John Tesch concerts and nature shows instead of anything that's controversial.

It's because they have major sponsors like Dupont and GE that will not allow it and that forces the hiring of more conservative programmers who want to please the sponsors and please the congress. It's not just congress that's the bad guy in it, it's been commercial interests for a long time before that.

Audience Member:
I'd like to know how you all feel about the news the other day with OJ Simpson when they said that the network said, "oh, everybody was asleep, it was terribly boring, there was nothing of interest with evidentiary ruling for DNA and overlaid the testimony with their comments?"
Bob Kubey:
What are you saying? You thought there was something that was complex but it wasn't selling, is that what the bottom line is?
Audience Member (continuing):
What I didn't understand was if we're talking about education in TV, why would they say it puts you to sleep to hear evidentiary rules to learn about DNA and overlay that and act like the only thing of interest is the sex and violence?
Bob Kubey:
I think the answer in part is that unfortunately for the networks and the monied interests, that occasionally the case has to be run under the existing rules of jurisprudence and sometimes for some people that isn't interesting or it's complex.

Much as I'm really critical of a lot of the stuff with the OJ case, I do have to say two good things. Every other issue practically in this society is getting articulated through that case in interesting ways and people are actually paying some attention. I don't think it's the ideal way they would do it.

The other thing is that even though Bill Clinton is not my favorite politician, I like him better than Phil Gramm and some of these guys and his ratings keep going up the longer OJ becomes the most important person in the county. So, as long as the consciousness is not on what Bill Clinton is doing every day, then he's in better shape. I'm being factitious. Leslie, you seemed like you had a comment.

Leslie Savan:
Nothing that great, but personally I'm kind of addicted to the OJ trial myself and so I speak from both sides. I think it's what I said before, entertainment is the highest value in the land. And when even the OJ trial ceases to be entertaining it too will be forgotten and hard as that may seem to believe now, it's, it's you know, media, movies, journalism, everything, television needs a constant beat. You have to hold on to that person's attention every second. You have to feel the pulse and you have to respond to it.

I used to write, this is a big admission, I used to write for the Star newspaper, the tabloid. Like the Inquirer. And I learned, what I learned about advertising is a very similar lesson: you can't loose their interest for a second. For a syllable. And when you do, they go away because we viewers, I hate to call us consumers cause it's such a reductive--

Bob Kubey:
Citizens?
Leslie Savan:
What an outdated term. I mean, but we have been conditioned to respond like that. Yes, we are complicit in it because we're the ones doing it, but we've also been conditioned to be like this and so it's very hilarious when you think about it. Here's people criticizing the OJ trial for becoming boring. And yet, the media who helped make--
Bob Kubey:
The media, big media people from Sam Donaldson to Tom Jarrel and so on like to talk about the public having a short attention span. They may, but they definitely, the journalists generally have a very short attention span as do their producers.

The other thing I would follow what Leslie was saying about, look at the worst financial scandal in the history of the world which is the savings and loan scandal. One of the reasons that went down was precisely because it was complex story about numbers with talking heads and the media couldn't find a way to inform the American public about it very well and even when they began to, it was only when they had some people--the Keating Five. Once they had some people, they could tell the story a little bit. Everything has to be told through some person in this culture. It's terrible.

Leslie Savan:
Personalities are better yet. If a celebrity had been involved, then--
Bob Kubey:
Yeah, well, they needed some sex and crime in that case. Other kinds of crime, violent crime. But what I mean, this is what the level of political discourse has become. Because it's dictated by financial interests, to my mind. Yes, this woman's been waiting patiently.
Audience Member:
Our local paper has absolutely no television or film reviews. Our major theater is the Storyteller. None of these films that are playing the festival would ever end up at the Storyteller. We had a petition drive in this town to try to get that theater, Translux to show alternative films. They slightly responded, once in a while we get Hoop Dreams or something at 8:30 at night, Monday through Thursday, something like that. And then, you can't buy the Village Voice in this town. You used to, but that's stopped. So as far as consumerism and choice, this is probably a typical town.
Bob Kubey:
You might start by freelancing a column about film. And you can start your own nickelodeon. That's not to say that you're at fault by any means, but you got to do stuff.
Audience Member (continuing):
Right, but we do have a marginalized art association, like most of these films will turn up because they're independent distributors. They are not Hollywood distributors. They will turn up in Santa Fe or here at our little art organization. They will not be seen in any mainstream context.
Adam Clayton Powell, III:
But you have the opportunity now to also start an arts discussion space, television and film reviews on La Plaza and I think La Plaza is a great example of what is possible. It's free and open to everyone.
Bob Kubey:
Let me try and leave on a--we should can this thing pretty soon--probably especially Leslie and myself have been very negative--let me say that media education is spreading rapidly around other parts of the world. Australia is now at the point of about 95 percent of their students are getting something. I don't think that we can remain so far behind for terribly much longer. I don't know how a hundred years from now or fifty years from now we'll still be doing what we're doing. Things will change. It's slow, it's difficult. I thank you all for coming. I have handouts on media education and stuff if anyone is interested. And thank you to our remaining panelists.

Return to Index Next Panel